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thetechnopagans
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1395 on: Apr 26th, 2009, 10:42am »

on Apr 25th, 2009, 8:48pm, Todd wrote:
Hell I have about four VSTs installed and that's about it besides Pro Tools hahah


thats so awesome
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jables
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1396 on: Apr 27th, 2009, 4:01pm »

Thanks for the info todd.

I think the only inputs I would want are kick, snare, and crash (maybe the guitar). Everything else I would let the venue handle, but as I see it, to get the kindof variation in kit sound we want as well as to get a dance sound out of the kit it is going to be less hassle in the long run to take care of it myself. I also want to be able to tweak the entire band if possible (low pass filter on the entire mix, etc). So that is 3-4 inputs to the interface, 4 outs. Then a bunch of USB midi gear running into ableton. Doable?
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Van-Damn
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1397 on: Apr 27th, 2009, 4:58pm »

Any re-wiring advice reason / ableton....

Just like pro's n con's n what not.....

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Todd
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1398 on: Apr 27th, 2009, 7:03pm »

on Apr 27th, 2009, 4:01pm, jables wrote:
Thanks for the info todd.

I think the only inputs I would want are kick, snare, and crash (maybe the guitar). Everything else I would let the venue handle, but as I see it, to get the kindof variation in kit sound we want as well as to get a dance sound out of the kit it is going to be less hassle in the long run to take care of it myself. I also want to be able to tweak the entire band if possible (low pass filter on the entire mix, etc). So that is 3-4 inputs to the interface, 4 outs. Then a bunch of USB midi gear running into ableton. Doable?


No, it's not dude. There are alot of holes you aren't thinking through. How are you going to set up live if half the kit is hooked up to the venues shit and half into yours? Do you think that would change/skew the quality of the kit (it will)? Will this take a long time to set up at the venue? Remember, the more connections, cords and confusion you have in your live set up the bigger the chance something will fail or go horribly wrong. And it ALWAYS goes wrong. Any DJ or band will tell you that.

And how are you going to be able to put a low pass filter on the entire band if you only have the snare, crash and kick hooked up to ableton? To do that you're going to need the ENTIRE kit hooked up to ableton, which, as I explained before, will require at least 10-16 inputs if not more. And a large chunk of change. Unless of course your drummer only plays the kick, crash and snare during the low pass parts, but then you would be limited by your GEAR and not by your CREATIVITY, who would want that?

You say you want a "variation of kit sounds" and a "dance kit". Well, you're not going to be able to get a "variation" of sounds just by hooking up a kit to ableton. All you're going to be able to do is set effects and filters on the thing. I may sound like a pessimistic asshole but I'm not trying to kill your dream with this post, I'm just looking at this in the most realistic way for you. If you can figure out how to do what you want to do and my advice is unwarranted, then I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for you to post how you did it, and how you overcame the obstacles I'm presenting.

The BEST way for you to do what you want to do is to buy an electronic drum kit. All you'll have to do is hook up a simple midi cord from the kit to ableton and you'll be able to change out the samples of every single different kit piece with the touch of a button, as well a apply effects, filters and EQs. Completely different snares, crashes, kicks, whatever, instantly and live. The venue would handle the mixing and the setup would be a SNAP. SUPER easy to do, we used to have an electronic kit at my old place and I hooked it up to ableton all the time to write drum parts for my last album. On top of that, you would actually be able to have a true DANCE KIT as you could drop some mega thick kicks and snares into that bad boy. That's my 2.
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Todd
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1399 on: Apr 27th, 2009, 7:07pm »

on Apr 27th, 2009, 4:58pm, Van-Damn wrote:
Any re-wiring advice reason / ableton....

Just like pro's n con's n what not.....



Well, it works. What else do you want to know dude? Sorta a pain. Really CPU intensive. Would rather just bounce tracks from one to the other personally. Just try it yourself and decide if you like it, everyone will have a different opinion on that one.

on Apr 26th, 2009, 10:42am, thetechnopagans wrote:
thats so awesome


90% of the synths on my new album are one VST (or RTAS more specifically) that's under $100. And it sounds like two supermodels fucking inside your brain. Hit me up on ichat and I'll show you demos of some ridiculous shit I'm showing to Dim Mak this week.
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jables
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1400 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 02:24am »

on Apr 27th, 2009, 7:03pm, Todd wrote:
No, it's not dude. There are alot of holes you aren't thinking through. How are you going to set up live if half the kit is hooked up to the venues shit and half into yours? Do you think that would change/skew the quality of the kit (it will)? Will this take a long time to set up at the venue? Remember, the more connections, cords and confusion you have in your live set up the bigger the chance something will fail or go horribly wrong. And it ALWAYS goes wrong. Any DJ or band will tell you that.
.


Todd, man, alright first off I think what you are saying is super sensible and it is reasonable. It is definitely realistic. ~~I will say though, I've played hundreds of live shows in both acoustic and electric bands so I've seen the challenges of live sound and know what I'm up against.
From my experience, I also know that the best thing you can do is feed the venue a solid signal that is mixed the way you like it to take as much of the work away from the typically wasted, lazy soundman. More cords means more cords that can fail, no problem, feeding a shitty sound to the soundman means you are starting off worst case and hoping the soundman fixes it.

It is EASIEST to let the venue take care of the drum sound, but if you want anything special you will either have to use, like you said, electronic drums or do it yourself. I want to use a live kit and my drummer is the shit on one so that is what I am going to make happen. So that leaves me with EQing and compressing/limiting the kit, low pass filters, and effects. The way I see it the only way your going to get the kick and the snare consistently sounding as fat as you want them is to either run them into their own stack and then to the soundman, or run them into ableton (which would give you the most control). The kit is going to be crash, ride, high hat, snare, and bass drum - which is a four mic job. Also money isn't too much of a problem, I'm just looking for a solution. I have killer musicians and something I want to try. Thanks for the advice though man, appreciate it, any additional is welcome.
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jables
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1401 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 02:26am »

Oh, and I'll totally keep you guys posted on how shit goes down.
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Mewithouttwo
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1402 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 12:53pm »

I know this isn't necessarily my place to say anything-but might I recommend that you see if your drummer can imitate the sounds of a said electronic drum kit?

Being a percussionist myself I know that it's not too tough to do so and in turn could save you a lot of hassle (pending on how creative you want to be).
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dankface
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1403 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 3:16pm »

when you rewire reason into a host is it possible to rewire each channel in reason to its own channel in the host or does it all have to go through one channel?
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jables
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1404 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 3:29pm »

on Apr 28th, 2009, 12:53pm, Mewithouttwo wrote:
I know this isn't necessarily my place to say anything-but might I recommend that you see if your drummer can imitate the sounds of a said electronic drum kit?

Being a percussionist myself I know that it's not too tough to do so and in turn could save you a lot of hassle (pending on how creative you want to be).


It is totally your place, yeah he can. Thats the issue though, you try to make dance music live and you have a kit with a rock mix (or whatever mix the venue gives you) on it, that limits your creativity substantially. I talked to the guy who runs a professional studio I record in (he went to school for sound engineering) and he is going to help me set this up. He seems to think this is not only totally doable but a pretty good idea from the sound perspective.
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ed
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1405 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 6:34pm »

I get huge latencies when I rewire reason into ableton live. Maybe it because of my shit sound card though.
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sparkoflife
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1406 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 7:02pm »

on Dec 19th, 2007, 10:33pm, Taylor wrote:
yeah, even though MIDI is a protocol and its pretty much standard, stuff varies from synth to synth


is a midi keyboard really protocol if you can work with the piano roll on FL well ?
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Van-Damn
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1407 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 7:30pm »

i'll defo fire on and see what the outcomes like
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Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1408 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 8:24pm »

You have exactly the same plan that I do for live shows. I'm going to be processing my whole band through and interface and controlling master patch changes with my midi foot board. I won't be doing anything really electronic but I might want a dance set every once in a while. You could use a hybrid set with electronic pads (like Danny Carey from Tool) or you could perhaps use triggers.
Also with some EQ and dynamics processing you could make your acoustic set sound electronic. Like put heavy compression on your kick and also sidechain it to a gate on another channel that has a pure low sine wave constantly running through it. The kick will have a heavy sound and the sine getting triggered takes care of the low end. Same thing with snare except triggering white noise. Eq the hats and process everything else in a similar fashion. Then you can also dynamically process the drums with everything else (sidechaining kick to bass)

As for an interface, I haven't really decided yet either. I'm looking at the Fast Track Ultra. 8 channels (Kick, Snare, Hats, Toms/cymbals/effects, Bass, Two Guitars, Mic) Pro Tools compatibility, good price. It's important to research the drivers and reliability of the interface to make sure it'll hold up in a live situation with low latency.
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on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
wiiman
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1409 on: Apr 28th, 2009, 9:42pm »

anyone know how to automate filters and stuff like that on logic pro?
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