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Kingnangelo
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #15 on: Dec 20th, 2007, 5:47pm »

big props to Taylor this thread rules, in light of this im sending out an urge to someone/anyone who knows a lot about it, to post up Dj equipment for dummies, maybe post some favored gear with a range of skill and understanding of the equipment and price ranges.....
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CDFG
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #16 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 09:19am »

on Dec 20th, 2007, 5:47pm, Kingnangelo wrote:
big props to Taylor this thread rules, in light of this im sending out an urge to someone/anyone who knows a lot about it, to post up Dj equipment for dummies, maybe post some favored gear with a range of skill and understanding of the equipment and price ranges.....


i don't know a lot, but the standard club setup is usually:

2 cdj1000's and/or
2 technics 1200's and
pioneer djm500, djm600, or djm800 mixer

why do we care what the standard club gear is?
well, because we want to play at clubs
and if we have some totally different gear at home, we're going to get our first club gig and be totally unfamiliar with the setup, and we're going to screw up and make a royal ass of ourself. we don't want that, do we?

(if you answered yes, stop reading here.)

now then, since this gear is pretty high quality which usually means expensive, we want to find it on the cheap. "wow c, you just totally read my mind, that's like, cosmic an shit." word. i did. it is. "where can we find this amazing gear at a low low price." used, on ebay son, or your local nightclub that's about to be shut down. or in the classifieds of your local newspaper from dude who thought he was innovating trying to spin his grandma's polka records and got crushed when he realized that's the wackest idea since having a rock for a pet. idk, you're creative. find a way!

the beautiful thing is, technics 1200's (if u don't know, google it) haven't changed much in years, and they're rock solid, they hold up. so even if you get a pair from the 70's, they'll be essentially the same and work just as well.

here's the catch: make sure you get some good cartridges, as this will very much affect the quality of sound if you're spinning actual vinyl. if you're using serato, it's not AS big of a deal but u don't want some worn out needles that won't stay in the groove of a record. if you're going to spin vinyl, get a matched pair. costs a bit more, but it reduces the tangible differences between your decks and you'll have a more consistent sound on them, which is good.

if by now you're saying to yourself "this guy's got no idea what he's talking about, i can get away just fine with the old record player grandma gave me" that's fine, go make your own way. just read up first and NO MATTER WHAT DO NOT BUY BELT DRIVE TURNTABLES, EVER, PERIOD. they don't have enough torque (get up to speed fast enough) to cue your record on time, and when you use a proper deck, you WILL screw up because you're used to compensating for a shit turntable. this doesn't mean you have to spend a ton, Stanton makes reasonably priced entry level direct-drive decks. again, MAKE SURE YOU BUY A DIRECT-DRIVE turntable.
also, the turntable should have a pitch control of at least +/- 8. this means you can increase or decrease the speed of the record you're playing by 8 percent. i'm not doing the math for you on that one, but say the record is 130bpm. 130bpm * 0.08 will tell you the number of beats u can speed/slow the record by.

please don't adjust the speed of a song with vocals by more than 6%. it just doesn't sound great and we don't to sound like an amateur.

another rule of thumb (applying to turntables, cd decks, and serato) is tracks almost ALWAYS sound good sped up, but seldom sound good slowed down. don't ask why, just keep it in the back of your head.

which leads me to my final point. headphones. you need some. they need to have a good bass frequency response (because we're mixing the beats together right? right.) sony, sennheiser, and technics all make some good ones. buying them used is gross because when we dj, we sweat. if you are into some kind of wierd ear-sweat thing, by all means, get some nasty used ones. otherwise, 100 bucks should get you all the headphone you need. don't buy the hype, do the research.

don't hold me to this cause it's been a while since i shopped for gear but

if you go the turntable route:
2 (used) decks @ 300 - 500 each = $600 - $1000
2 headshells/cartriges = $100 - $200+
a good mixer (used) = $500 - $1000+
headphones = $100
--------------------------------
total: $1300 - $2000+

the cdj route:
2 decks @ 500+ = $1000 - $2000
mixer = $500 - $1000+
headphones = $100
--------------------------------
total $1600 - $3000+

keep in mind, vinyl costs way more than cds (esp if u just burn cd's that your friends give you)

but if you have a computer, and you buy serato (apprx $550 new) you can just play mp3s and avoid the cd/vinyl cost alltogether.

this makes the vinyl setup less costly. although you will have to replace your needles occasionally (if you play every day for about 2 hours, you can probably get a year out of them if u buy decent ones, but don't quote me on that.) AND you will eventually wear out your serato records, so you'll have to buy new ones instead of just burning new control cds. still, the vinyl setup is less costly up front and you can always sell ur shit and buy cdj's later. technics decks retain their value pretty well. that's another reason why i haven't talked about any others, and i'm not gonna. you know how to use google.

"ok so great, now i have all this crap, what am i going to play it through."

well, you can plug the mixer outs into the RCA ins of your boombox/stereo/tv whatever.

or, if you want to play at parties, and you can lug around a PA, buy one. i don't know much about them, except you need a
power conditioner
amplifier
speakers/monitors (which are NOT the same as studio monitors)
you could probably rent one from a local music store though, and charge a few bucks a head for people at the party to cover the cost till you make enough to buy your own (now we're dangerously close to crossing into the promotions game and i'm not gonna go there in this thread.)

in my experience though, a loud stereo is enough for a medium sized house party. somewhere there's a thread that (i believe it was fisk) explained the speaker wattage to party people ratio.

other misc costs include:

a 'coffin style' case, or individual cases for your gear. (you weren't just gonna throw them in the back of your honda civic unprotected, were you?)

a stand? (folding tables work just fine)

a mic (if you want to be a wank and delude yourself that people want to hear you talking over the music... which they don't.)

some rubbers (this should be self explanatory, if not, suffice it to say girls love dj's.)

money for rehab (just in case...)

there. now you know just enough to be dangerous...
« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2007, 09:35am by CDFG » Logged

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Taylor
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #17 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 12:15am »

word, and if you want some hybrid DJ setups ill go a bit into that

DJ falcon, para one and a few others use ableton and decks, its pretty interesting i believe both of them use

a macbook with ableton
allen and heath xone 3D mixer/controller
1200s/cdj1000s
a uce33e

if anyone knows exactly how they do it, feel free to fill in, im just IDing the gear since thats what like half the questions are about
« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2008, 5:46pm by Taylor » Logged

MERCURIUSFM
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #18 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 12:42am »

^ ah, there was a time when I used to give a shit and spend a lot of time explaining to people and "spreading the word"

age...
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petezombie
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #19 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 10:28am »

For any ableton users on this site I just thought Id share this link with you all.

http://www.abletonguru.com/live/tutorials/

Theres a very good tutorial on side chain compression for ableton users which I found very useful. There also links to some good VSTs on that site too.
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Taylor
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #20 on: Dec 22nd, 2007, 9:50pm »

DRUM SAMPLES:

get your own, im not trying to be a jerk, but thats how you build your sound, imagine if everyone used the same drum samples, music would be pretty boring huh?
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petezombie
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #21 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 07:00am »

How do you guys approach panning when mixing your tunes?

I've been to small clubs where they use only two speakers for a basic stereo setup but do they still maintain a stereo setup in clubs with several speakers placed in different parts of the club, do people make club tunes in surround sound yet?

I guess if were talking about dance music being played in clubs you wouldnt want to place any sounds only on the hard left or right since half the club wouldnt be hearing those sounds but how much do you tend to pan your sounds?

Are there specific sounds such as the bassier parts or percussions you tend to centre and others you tend to pan more left or right?

Thanks
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Fookes
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #22 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 07:59am »

What Instruments do you guys use for your MIDI? Any recommendations for me? I'm not looking for anything in particulat, but everything I've tried so far ends up sounding like a cheesy E-Piano, no matter what I try and do to it...
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Taylor
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #23 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 11:16am »

on Dec 24th, 2007, 07:59am, Fookes wrote:
What Instruments do you guys use for your MIDI? Any recommendations for me? I'm not looking for anything in particulat, but everything I've tried so far ends up sounding like a cheesy E-Piano, no matter what I try and do to it...


MIDI doesnt make sounds, its 1s and 0s, ons and offs
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Taylor
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #24 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 11:17am »

on Dec 24th, 2007, 07:00am, petezombie wrote:
How do you guys approach panning when mixing your tunes?

I've been to small clubs where they use only two speakers for a basic stereo setup but do they still maintain a stereo setup in clubs with several speakers placed in different parts of the club, do people make club tunes in surround sound yet?

I guess if were talking about dance music being played in clubs you wouldnt want to place any sounds only on the hard left or right since half the club wouldnt be hearing those sounds but how much do you tend to pan your sounds?

Are there specific sounds such as the bassier parts or percussions you tend to centre and others you tend to pan more left or right?

Thanks


i usually keep vocals and drums centered, i pan the individual drums a little bit, then everything else i kinda feather off to the side
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davidwolf
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #25 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 11:45am »

on Dec 24th, 2007, 07:59am, Fookes wrote:
What Instruments do you guys use for your MIDI? Any recommendations for me? I'm not looking for anything in particulat, but everything I've tried so far ends up sounding like a cheesy E-Piano, no matter what I try and do to it...

depends a lot on how much you fuck with the soft synth (which i assume is what you're talking about). presets usually sound like shit, or at least like cheesy e-pianos. what are you using right now, maybe i can give some specific tips...
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Taylor
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #26 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 12:18pm »

on Dec 24th, 2007, 11:45am, davidwolf wrote:
depends a lot on how much you fuck with the soft synth (which i assume is what you're talking about). presets usually sound like shit, or at least like cheesy e-pianos. what are you using right now, maybe i can give some specific tips...


yeah, kinda thrown by his question too, the best thing to do is learn about synthesis, so you know the names of certain properties like attack,decay,sustain,release,chorus,filter, and oscillators, once you understand what that stuff is you can navigate any synth or soft synth control panel and know what to adjust to make your sounds warmer, colder, thicker, thinner, etc

the type of synthesis most people are familiar with is subtractive synthesis, but theres also a few more like additive and FM
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Taylor
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #27 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 12:27pm »

heres basic subtractive synthesis

OSCILLATOR ---------> FILTER ---------> AMPLIFIER

the oscillator produces your signal

the filter cuts out parts(hence the name filter)

the amp controls the volume over a period of time

basically the name subtractive synthesis explains itself, you start witha sound and take away what you dont want

heres additive synthesis

Additive synthesis is a technique of audio synthesis which creates musical timbre.

The timbre of an instrument is composed of multiple harmonics or partials, in different quantities, that change over time. Additive synthesis emulates such timbres by combining numerous waveforms pitched to different harmonics, with a different amplitude envelope on each, along with inharmonic artifacts. Usually, this involves a bank of oscillators tuned to multiples of the base frequency. Often, each oscillator has its own customizable volume envelope, creating a realistic, dynamic sound that changes over time.

-wikipedia

basically youre layering your oscillators to create a sound, like a layered cake of audio goodness...ok that analogy sucked

FM synthesis

i barely understand this so ill try my best

basically you have your carrier wave and you use other waveforms to modulate the carrier wave, hence the name frequency modulation...sounds simple, its not

if you dont understand any of this just pick up your synth and adjust individual paramters and pay attention to what they do, thats how i learned
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davidwolf
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #28 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 2:41pm »

my friend's dad created FM synthesis....pretty rad.
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petezombie
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #29 on: Dec 24th, 2007, 4:06pm »

on Dec 24th, 2007, 11:17am, Taylor [internet] wrote:
i usually keep vocals and drums centered, i pan the individual drums a little bit, then everything else i kinda feather off to the side


I was reading up on John X's panning techniques and apperantly he likes to pan his effects and delays both hard left and right, I dont know if he has a seperate channel for the effects and the dry samples or whatever but I think that sounds like a very interesting idea to fuck around with.
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