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Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1590 on: Jul 7th, 2009, 9:12pm »

on Jul 7th, 2009, 08:50am, arob wrote:
I think you are confusing Sample Rate with Bit Rate. The Sample Rate is the temporal component of digital audio, how many times per second a continuous sound wave is sampled and encoded. The Bit Rate determines the accuracy of each of these samples.

So, say you have a 1 second sound at a bit rate of 320kbps and a sample rate of 44.1Khz (CD Audio). When you time stretch this to 3 seconds you are just increasing the spaces between each of the 44,100 samples. They are still encoded at the same bit rate of 320kpbs, but the sample rate is now effectively 14.7khz. This is where each program's own time stretching algorithm comes in, filling in the gaps between the spaced apart samples.

I think you're confusing bit rate with bit depth
Sample rate is how many "snapshots" are taken of the waveform. The bit depth is the accuracy of each sample. The bit rate is calculated by number of possible bits (bit depth) by number of samples per second (sample rate).
Decreasing the sample rate would effectively decrease the bit rate as well.
Time stretching algorithms do decrease the sample rate to stretch a track, then interpolate the missing bits to fill the audio back out to the previous sample rate. So I'd imagine a stretched piece of audio would still play back at the original sample rate but the number of original samples would be reduced. For example, a 320 kbps 44100 piece of audio time stretched to half speed would still play back at 44100 samples/second after processing, but if you're counting original data only, the bitrate would be 160.
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Batman uses samples.

on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
arob
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1591 on: Jul 8th, 2009, 10:20am »

on Jul 7th, 2009, 9:12pm, Kyran wrote:
I think you're confusing bit rate with bit depth


Indeed. I guess every audio course I've taken can be considered useless when my job puts me in work-zombie mode.
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lukas.
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1592 on: Jul 8th, 2009, 9:35pm »

does the tuning of oscillators and the octave you play a synth make a difference? kinda hard to put into words, but say you wanna make a bass line and you write some midi notes in the mid octaves (like C3 - C4) but you tune the oscillators to very low octaves. would that be the exact same as taking oscillators tuned at a mid octave and writing the midi notes in the lower octaves (like C1-C2)? pretty much vice versa, just wondering if it makes a difference at all.
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slyman
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1593 on: Jul 8th, 2009, 10:03pm »

on Jul 8th, 2009, 9:35pm, LukeSwits wrote:
does the tuning of oscillators and the octave you play a synth make a difference? kinda hard to put into words, but say you wanna make a bass line and you write some midi notes in the mid octaves (like C3 - C4) but you tune the oscillators to very low octaves. would that be the exact same as taking oscillators tuned at a mid octave and writing the midi notes in the lower octaves (like C1-C2)? pretty much vice versa, just wondering if it makes a difference at all.


id say yea if wat ur asking is say the synth is tuned to octave 2 and u write it at c2 its the same as the synth being at octave 3 and writing at c1

and does anyone kno wat d.i.m.s basses r made up of like square saw etc?
« Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2009, 10:08pm by slyman » Logged

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Biff
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1594 on: Jul 9th, 2009, 11:23am »

on Jul 8th, 2009, 10:03pm, slyman wrote:
id say yea if wat ur asking is say the synth is tuned to octave 2 and u write it at c2 its the same as the synth being at octave 3 and writing at c1

and does anyone kno wat d.i.m.s basses r made up of like square saw etc?


People use different waveforms for different songs, but typically I think sawtooth waves are more commonly used in House
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slyman
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1595 on: Jul 9th, 2009, 12:15pm »

on Jul 9th, 2009, 11:23am, Biff wrote:
People use different waveforms for different songs, but typically I think sawtooth waves are more commonly used in House


yea i kno but go listen to some d.i.m. tracks he has that signature bass
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Ima
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1596 on: Jul 10th, 2009, 3:17pm »

Ok I've got a question.
I just downloaded and installed a synth from the VST Club link posted earlier in this thread, but how to I get it to be recognized as a software instrument by Logic? Is there an instrument or plugin folder I have to drag it into?
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1597 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 5:45pm »

on Jul 10th, 2009, 3:17pm, Ima wrote:
Ok I've got a question.
I just downloaded and installed a synth from the VST Club link posted earlier in this thread, but how to I get it to be recognized as a software instrument by Logic? Is there an instrument or plugin folder I have to drag it into?


logic and VSTs aren't compatible.
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Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1598 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 6:37pm »

on Jul 9th, 2009, 12:15pm, slyman wrote:
yea i kno but go listen to some d.i.m. tracks he has that signature bass

He likes high passing saw waves or layering high freq content waves over lower low passed fundamental tones. You could use a band reject filter with a wide ass Q but it would probably be better to run a saw wave into a low pass and then add on a high frequency/highpassed waveform on top, that bypasses the lowpass filter.
I think he splits his synths on a lot of his productions. I'm listening to Noize right now and it sounds like he's only kicking in the FM in on a midrange oscillator, keeping the bass clean.

In one word: Layering. You probably won't get a similar sound with a single oscillator. He's a monster producer so good luck approximating his style (for learning purposes obviously, don't be a loser and steal his shit)
You'll want an FM synth and a nice distortion unit. FM8 and Ohmicide would probably give you those raw sounds. Get a few different cool sounds and automate between them
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Batman uses samples.

on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1599 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 7:24pm »

In the midst of all of this-I feel reluctant to ask a question as simple/dumbed down as this:

Whenever mixing songs-I feel that at times they sound a little too brittle or not full enough.

I've tried adding some reverb on certain tracks to thicken them up but even then that doesn't always help.

Could anyone give me some advice on how to make my tracks sound any more full?
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slyman
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1600 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 9:00pm »

on Jul 12th, 2009, 6:37pm, Kyran wrote:
He's a monster producer so good luck approximating his style (for learning purposes obviously, don't be a loser and steal his shit)


yea i dont want to steal his shit i just like learning how the pros make their stuff, helps me make my own sounds later, and how do i get to the level ur at and b able to break these things down like this lol
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Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1601 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 9:14pm »

on Jul 12th, 2009, 7:24pm, Mewithouttwo wrote:
In the midst of all of this-I feel reluctant to ask a question as simple/dumbed down as this:

Whenever mixing songs-I feel that at times they sound a little too brittle or not full enough.

I've tried adding some reverb on certain tracks to thicken them up but even then that doesn't always help.

Could anyone give me some advice on how to make my tracks sound any more full?

Not a simple question at all. Depends on what you mean by brittle/not full enough. Is it lacking low frequencies? Or is it more a question of not being dense enough. If it's the latter, try adding in a few more percussion instruments or something to fill out the rhythm a bit more. Reverb or delay are good for filling space, maybe use a bit more than you normally would. When I first started making music on a computer I'd never use any reverb because I thought it washed out my sound, but you'd be surprised at how much reverb there actually is on a lot of tracks. If you want to use reverb to fill out the space in between notes but don't want it to make everything sound so far away, then set the reverb up to be ducked by the main signal. Then you'll only hear the verb tail when the instrument is resting and it won't wash it out when actually playing. How to do this would depend on what DAW you're using and what plugins you have. FL Studio and Reaper are able to sidechain anything pretty much, but in another DAW you might have to set up a heavy compressor or find a reverb unit that supports ducking.

As for the main issue, you'll have to determine whether it's an arrangement problem or a mixing/sound design problem, and make decisions from there.
« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2009, 9:17pm by Kyran » Logged

Batman uses samples.

on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1602 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 9:29pm »

on Jul 12th, 2009, 9:00pm, slyman wrote:
yea i dont want to steal his shit i just like learning how the pros make their stuff, helps me make my own sounds later, and how do i get to the level ur at and b able to break these things down like this lol

Ha I'm still a nub but I've improved loads since I first started. It really just comes down to practice and using your ears. I know that sounds like bullshit advice but it's the truth.
I just started producing about a year ago and I was pretty damn terrible at first (if you were around for that one DatA remix you know the kind of terrible I'm talking about) but whenever I had free time I was noodling with something and eventually it paid off. If you want to get better all you need to do is try to learn as much as you can. Sign up for a gmail account and setup your rss reader. Then go subscribe to any good music tutorial sites you can find. For instance I've got AudioTuts+ and MusicRadar which are both pretty good for "How to make _____ in 12 steps" kinds of articles.
Also train the hell out of your ears. Going on huge google learning sprees is the best way to accumulate knowledge. Every time you read something you don't know about, Ctrl/Cmd + Tab and paste it into Google.
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Batman uses samples.

on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1603 on: Jul 13th, 2009, 09:12am »

on Jul 12th, 2009, 7:24pm, Mewithouttwo wrote:
In the midst of all of this-I feel reluctant to ask a question as simple/dumbed down as this:

Whenever mixing songs-I feel that at times they sound a little too brittle or not full enough.

I've tried adding some reverb on certain tracks to thicken them up but even then that doesn't always help.

Could anyone give me some advice on how to make my tracks sound any more full?


Kyran is right on the money + also try analyzing your track with a spectrogram and look at which frequencies you're missing... then find audio in that range and add... or boost those frequencies a bit... I uploaded a link with the CM Mixing special a couple pages back, read it and it will help you A LOT

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Mauricio
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #1604 on: Jul 13th, 2009, 09:30am »

on Jul 12th, 2009, 9:29pm, Kyran wrote:
Ha I'm still a nub but I've improved loads since I first started. It really just comes down to practice and using your ears. I know that sounds like bullshit advice but it's the truth.
I just started producing about a year ago and I was pretty damn terrible at first (if you were around for that one DatA remix you know the kind of terrible I'm talking about) but whenever I had free time I was noodling with something and eventually it paid off. If you want to get better all you need to do is try to learn as much as you can. Sign up for a gmail account and setup your rss reader. Then go subscribe to any good music tutorial sites you can find. For instance I've got AudioTuts+ and MusicRadar which are both pretty good for "How to make _____ in 12 steps" kinds of articles.
Also train the hell out of your ears. Going on huge google learning sprees is the best way to accumulate knowledge. Every time you read something you don't know about, Ctrl/Cmd + Tab and paste it into Google.


I'm on the same boat as you except months behind... but I definitely agree... I read about production whenever I have time... and usually print out stuff and bring it with me just in case I have 5 min here, 20 min there... if I go surfing I bring it to the beach so I can read it when I'm resting, if I'm eating I read it while I'm eating... I have it taped all over my walls so when I'm cuddling with my girlfriend I can actually be studying production... hahaha

I've noticed that listening to music for me has changed... I'm always listening for little things, feeling out the structure, trying to hear through the layers and taking notes about things i want to learn how to do...





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