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Making Electronic Music

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Todd
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2115 on: Feb 24th, 2010, 8:10pm »

on Feb 24th, 2010, 7:01pm, Kyran wrote:
Good post although the frequencies may need to be altered depending on the particular sounds themselves.
ps audio below 20 hz is audible, it's just not always able to be reproduced on some headphones and home systems. If you're making dubstep to be played on a club system with a rack of 24" subs, 7-20 hz is going to be the Satan in your sack.


i agree, that eq chart definitely is flexible, every snare and kick is going to hit at different frequencies and it bothers me that they used like, 60hz as the generic kick sound when they all hit at different spots.

the rest of your statement is untrue and impossible by the laws of physics, acoustics and human biology.
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The_IRA
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2116 on: Feb 25th, 2010, 12:28am »

on Feb 24th, 2010, 8:10pm, Todd wrote:
i agree, that eq chart definitely is flexible, every snare and kick is going to hit at different frequencies and it bothers me that they used like, 60hz as the generic kick sound when they all hit at different spots.

the rest of your statement is untrue and impossible by the laws of physics, acoustics and human biology.


Agreed. Although I did just look up and under perfect conditions we can heard to 12Hz, and of course deteriorates with age and depends on the person; 20Hz is the standard.

Anyways the chart is perfect when you want to boost something, but dont know what range to start looking for. It gives a good area of where to start sweeping for that sound you want, or to take out.
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Todd
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2117 on: Feb 25th, 2010, 12:46am »

on Feb 25th, 2010, 12:28am, The_IRA wrote:
Agreed. Although I did just look up and under perfect conditions we can heard to 12Hz, and of course deteriorates with age and depends on the person; 20Hz is the standard.

Anyways the chart is perfect when you want to boost something, but dont know what range to start looking for. It gives a good area of where to start sweeping for that sound you want, or to take out.


yeah you're totally right. or in the case of drums just look around the frequencies given with a spectrum analyzer and find the hump.

the frequency thing is also about the physics of speakers and the huge drain on your headroom. plus it's all feeling and not hearing from 60 on down anyway.

edit: quick thought i had was that your chest cavity resonates at 92hz, that's the pleasant frequency you feel at the club. ive heard some older consoles even had a button that added an automatic bump at 92.
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2010, 12:53am by Todd » Logged

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Mauricio
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2118 on: Feb 25th, 2010, 01:27am »

on Feb 25th, 2010, 12:46am, Todd wrote:
yeah you're totally right. or in the case of drums just look around the frequencies given with a spectrum analyzer and find the hump.

the frequency thing is also about the physics of speakers and the huge drain on your headroom. plus it's all feeling and not hearing from 60 on down anyway.

edit: quick thought i had was that your chest cavity resonates at 92hz, that's the pleasant frequency you feel at the club. ive heard some older consoles even had a button that added an automatic bump at 92.


Good to know.
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Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2119 on: Feb 26th, 2010, 5:55pm »

You ever be in front of a big pa system and do a/b tests? There's a big difference as long as your power amp can handle it. Audio material below 20hz still can have a great effect on the music. Look at dubstep sublines for instance. There's a lot under 20 hz and it whacks you if you have speakers and power to pull it off.
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on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2120 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 12:16am »

on Feb 26th, 2010, 5:55pm, Kyran wrote:
You ever be in front of a big pa system and do a/b tests? There's a big difference as long as your power amp can handle it. Audio material below 20hz still can have a great effect on the music. Look at dubstep sublines for instance. There's a lot under 20 hz and it whacks you if you have speakers and power to pull it off.


have you?

let's get specific. post any one of these songs and i'll run it through a spectrum analyzer, post the screenshot and we'll see what's going on.

average peak of 20hz is like -30 but -40 and -20 wouldn't be uncommon. but if it goes that high it's only for very short peaks. this is because when you crush a song with a limiter it will bring all the very quiet frequencies up. loudest kick i've ever seen is faxing berlin at -3, quietest is wolfgangs britney remix at -18, it's no comparison.

i use Live's spectrum with the master preset for this kinda thing.
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The_IRA
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2121 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 12:26am »

I need suggestions on where to seek out some sound design. Could be a internet site, ebook, forums, etc. that could point me in the right direction for creating popular synth sounds.

I am probably 50-70% proficient with synths, know how they work and how to modulate things (current fav's are massive, DCAM synth squad, and Sylenth). The problem is all the secrets producers/musicians use to create common sounds (so sound design). Like for example a dubstep wobble is just an LFO to the filter cutoff. Easy as that...
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Mauricio
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2122 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 01:32am »

on Feb 27th, 2010, 12:26am, The_IRA wrote:
I need suggestions on where to seek out some sound design. Could be a internet site, ebook, forums, etc. that could point me in the right direction for creating popular synth sounds.

I am probably 50-70% proficient with synths, know how they work and how to modulate things (current fav's are massive, DCAM synth squad, and Sylenth). The problem is all the secrets producers/musicians use to create common sounds (so sound design). Like for example a dubstep wobble is just an LFO to the filter cutoff. Easy as that...


The computer music synth special has little tips for making popular sounds... It's pretty synth specific but will get you the know how of what you need to do in general also.

KVR sound design's forums is great. i got some great tips from there in making the dutch/latin house sounds.

Trick is start simple and build up... a blank patch and build... We should start a sound design thread...

Edit: I know what you mean though... sometimes I wish I could just touch a book and absorb the knowledge like the matrix... actually I wish it multiple times per day.
« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2010, 01:41am by Mauricio » Logged

Djtony
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2123 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 11:32am »

on Feb 27th, 2010, 01:32am, Mauricio wrote:
The computer music synth special has little tips for making popular sounds... It's pretty synth specific but will get you the know how of what you need to do in general also.

KVR sound design's forums is great. i got some great tips from there in making the dutch/latin house sounds.

Trick is start simple and build up... a blank patch and build... We should start a sound design thread...

Edit: I know what you mean though... sometimes I wish I could just touch a book and absorb the knowledge like the matrix... actually I wish it multiple times per day.


I love messing with my synths. Trying to get the sounds that i hear in songs that i like is so much fun hahaha.

What i would really like to know is how to get that bass "waa waaa waooo woooww" sound that starts at :42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIhZLr5B8kE

it bugs me that i can't make it
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on Mar 1st, 2010, 2:52pm, Kyran wrote:
... yuh know the usual, hold him down, grease it up, stuff it in... maybe some ear whispers or shoulder nibbling
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2124 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 11:49am »

I added the "Sound Design Thread"

Here is the link: http://mstrkrft.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1267292811&start=0

If you want Mauricio just copy paste what you said in the thread or something. Otherwise ill just quote you.
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ttime
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2125 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 4:36pm »

on Feb 27th, 2010, 11:49am, The_IRA wrote:
I added the "Sound Design Thread"

Here is the link: http://mstrkrft.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1267292811&start=0

If you want Mauricio just copy paste what you said in the thread or something. Otherwise ill just quote you.


hey, check your messages yo.
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Kyran
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2126 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 8:54pm »

on Feb 27th, 2010, 12:16am, Todd wrote:
have you?

let's get specific. post any one of these songs and i'll run it through a spectrum analyzer, post the screenshot and we'll see what's going on.

average peak of 20hz is like -30 but -40 and -20 wouldn't be uncommon. but if it goes that high it's only for very short peaks. this is because when you crush a song with a limiter it will bring all the very quiet frequencies up. loudest kick i've ever seen is faxing berlin at -3, quietest is wolfgangs britney remix at -18, it's no comparison.

i use Live's spectrum with the master preset for this kinda thing.

You're saying a 20hz wave peaking at -30 wouldn't be heard? Or because the limiter's gonna crush it? If anything the limiter would compress it up in between transients?

It's obviously not going to be as loud as the kick transients if that's what you mean. Track dynamics aside, (you can alter the mix to have any sub-spectrum more audible than another) 20hz is still audible on a proper system and is definitely felt by the audience.
Hell, I just got Sony headphones that go down to 4 hz. Of course, any shit in that range is just low pressure but that can surely have an effect on music, maybe not necessarily in a cluttered house mix, but possibly in a slower, dark dubstep tune where the elements have more room to breathe. Sub frequencies can be used like lfos to affect dynamics, pushing and pulling on compressors and limiters.

For the most part, for most producers, totally useless.
Don't write off sub frequencies all together though. With the right tools, in the right situation it'll give you an extra bit of thunder.
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on Mar 13th, 2009, 05:06am, TYLER wrote:
EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THIS ISN'T THE WHERE I GO ON MUSHROOMS THREAD.
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2127 on: Feb 27th, 2010, 11:37pm »

on Feb 27th, 2010, 8:54pm, Kyran wrote:
You're saying a 20hz wave peaking at -30 wouldn't be heard? Or because the limiter's gonna crush it? If anything the limiter would compress it up in between transients?

It's obviously not going to be as loud as the kick transients if that's what you mean. Track dynamics aside, (you can alter the mix to have any sub-spectrum more audible than another) 20hz is still audible on a proper system and is definitely felt by the audience.
Hell, I just got Sony headphones that go down to 4 hz. Of course, any shit in that range is just low pressure but that can surely have an effect on music, maybe not necessarily in a cluttered house mix, but possibly in a slower, dark dubstep tune where the elements have more room to breathe. Sub frequencies can be used like lfos to affect dynamics, pushing and pulling on compressors and limiters.

For the most part, for most producers, totally useless.
Don't write off sub frequencies all together though. With the right tools, in the right situation it'll give you an extra bit of thunder.


To Todd & Kyran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contours

`M
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Timo
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2128 on: Feb 28th, 2010, 12:14am »

I have come back a little wiser, and I am looking for a nice, not too expensive USB DJ controller, and I am really looking at the VCI 300. What's the general consensus on this controller, along with Itch? Is there a better controller I should be concerned with?
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Todd
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Re: Making Electronic Music
« Reply #2129 on: Feb 28th, 2010, 11:59am »

on Feb 27th, 2010, 8:54pm, Kyran wrote:
You're saying a 20hz wave peaking at -30 wouldn't be heard? Or because the limiter's gonna crush it? If anything the limiter would compress it up in between transients?

It's obviously not going to be as loud as the kick transients if that's what you mean. Track dynamics aside, (you can alter the mix to have any sub-spectrum more audible than another) 20hz is still audible on a proper system and is definitely felt by the audience.
Hell, I just got Sony headphones that go down to 4 hz. Of course, any shit in that range is just low pressure but that can surely have an effect on music, maybe not necessarily in a cluttered house mix, but possibly in a slower, dark dubstep tune where the elements have more room to breathe. Sub frequencies can be used like lfos to affect dynamics, pushing and pulling on compressors and limiters.

For the most part, for most producers, totally useless.
Don't write off sub frequencies all together though. With the right tools, in the right situation it'll give you an extra bit of thunder.


Things you conveniently ignored:

1. Have YOU ever done a/b tests at a club?

2. Post a song that has what you're talking about in it.

This is a waste of my time. Anyone dumb enough to listen to you deserves to write shitty sounding songs. You don't produce and you don't DJ and you don't know what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2010, 12:05pm by Todd » Logged

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